Photographer's Comment: This one is for competition in PPA regional, made some changes from the original which did get me an honorable mention, but it scored a 78 and I need it to score at least an 80 which we all know is very subjective. What I'm looking for is if you think the changes add or detract from the image, be critical as you can be, the judges won't be nice. :) Titles are also of major importance here so Any suggestions (title and or image) are welcome and thanks to Wayne, Jim M, Ken B, Gary K, Tanja, Katia and Bea for their suggestions on the image so far. The original is on my BV. Thanks in advance, Carl

Tags: gothic senior portrait fantasy

Viewer Comments:

By smokeydawg (2008-02-27 15:40:12 ): Thanks Dan for stopping by and commenting. I have burned her arm and face a little bit since this posting, and also brought back some of the details in the archway, didn't see them when I posted this, tunnel vision I guess. One of the reasons I posted this, I knew something was off but was having a "duh" moment. Thanks for the title suggestions also.

By fotostalker (2008-02-25 18:58:30 ): Carl -- my immediate reaction was that the model's face and right arm are a bit hot and could benefit from a little burning for a little more detail. Also, the arched/vaulted area at the top of the doorway is a bit of a black hole and might benefit from just a little bit of dodging to bring out a "skosh" of detail. The vampiric mood is fantastic / lighting very dramatic and supportive of the story. What about something like "When Night Falls" or "Into the Night" or "Escape into Night" -- something a little more poetic for the title of such a fantastic image!

By smokeydawg (2008-02-25 14:14:39 ): Don't say sorry Wayne, I just really appreciate the input you've been so kind to share with me on this. I like the idea of her being larger and have an idea for that, if I can get it to work, there is another shot without the "shawl" where she is larger, and looks a little more menacing and I like the fog idea, I still have time before regionals so I'll probably do a little more playing with it and will see what happens with these suggestions. Another shot with these two girls is in the works to kind of extend the series a bit, but we will probably wait until it warms up a bit and some of this snow goes away. I like the title suggestion also, and working with a couple ideas on that. Thanks again for all the feedback, it is most appreciated!

By smokeydawg (2008-02-25 14:06:35 ): Thanks for taking the time Jim, you bring up a couple good points, I agree with the dark area, will lighten that up a bit to bring back the details there, good point on her arm / face also , I'll burn that a bit also. Both very good points I hadn't really noticed. Starting to get tunnel vision on this one. :o

By NowYesNow (2008-02-24 18:22:34 ): Sorry, Carl, that I failed to notice your update, here, 'til now. You're definitely getting serious with the "dark side" now, my man. I suppose Jim has a point about reclaiming a touch of the detail in the arch, but in my estimation, I'd only lighten it enough to undo the "black-hole" tendency of it to pull attention away from the girl. The OTHER possibility for that whole top 1/3rd, now that I think about it, could be to add some fog up there? I know, I know.. I'm talking really blasphemously, here, among the purist crowd. I know. I'm just sayin'... To quote from the Will Ferrel skit, "more cowbell.. it needs more cowbell". LOL. Another idea? now that you have this vision going, you might try for a reshoot? Pick a day with the light you like for it, maybe take along a light or two? I like, very much, your model's attitude.. I'd like to see her a little larger in the frame... more prominent.. and that right hand arm is almost lost against the light tone of the threshold stone.. I'd like to free that up. An alternate staging idea might get the idea across more clearly, too.. I like the directness of it, but if you shifted to your left a foot or two? or had her crawling more toward the camera-right of the path, but glaring directly back at you? it might have the effect that you'd interrupted/discovered her escape, and had suddenly gotten her attention. Oh Horrors! Might also intensify her makeup for this idea, too. ;-) I'll shut up, now. :-| I lie.. here's another title suggestion, too: "Get Oouuut!"

By ktapio (2008-02-23 19:20:58 ): When I read Jim’s point of dodging the arch over the door I knew why was the over all color too dark. He is right, bringing in the details there will give the image more depth. I thought the dark effect flattened the stones on the wall. Maybe not so.. I hope it is not too much nit picking I have a feeling that it will meat all the requirement no fret. Every body here are so helpful.. Bonne chance! katia

By smokeydawg (2008-02-23 18:46:04 ): Thanks for the input Jim, emailed you back. :)

By Jim915 (2008-02-23 18:10:10 ): Carl - I like the change in the color tone. I think this creates a much more dramatic image. Something to look at is the dark area at the top of the arch. Some dodging there to bring out detail would help. Also, her face on arm on viewer's left are maybe a little hot. It was mentioned in your previous version that the image is tipped. I think here that the darkness and slightly off level perspective complement each other here and add to the spooky mood. I also like the lighting of the doorway, path, etc. Again that adds to the mood.

By smokeydawg (2008-02-23 16:49:15 ): Thanks for the time and input Carlos, I really appreciate it. You got what I was going for in adding tilt to the door, actually that was Waynes idea and thought it might work in this instance. Once again thanks for your input!! Carl

By smokeydawg (2008-02-23 16:46:01 ): Thanks a bunch Michele!

By smokeydawg (2008-02-23 16:45:33 ): Thanks for your input Dorothy, I really appreciate it and agree about the title, and "Escape" is a great fit. Titles are probably one of my weakest aspects in this process. Simple is a great idea!

By smokeydawg (2008-02-23 16:41:39 ): Thanks Brad, especially for pointing out the upper right, I forgot about that and will clone it out. I agree the title is still a bit weak, so I'll go back and rethink that also. A title in these competitons can make or break an image's score.

By smokeydawg (2008-02-23 16:37:34 ): helps me.

By smokeydawg (2008-02-23 16:33:05 ): Thanks Katia, I really appreciate your input. I know the verticles were off in the original, so I decided to go against the rules and over exagerate the tilt of those verticles in this, to me the door and broken glass is her escape mechanism, it's also suppose to be a "dark" image of vampires, which dark images usually don't usually do well in competition, they seem to want to see pretty and upbeat. So that in a strange way is my motivation, to compete with something that doesn't usually do well. The steps in the PPA comp are state, regional and nationals. Since it did get a 78 at state, I was wondering what it would take to put it to the magical 80 and a merit print. I need a total of 12 merit prints and 12 educational merits to obtain a Masters from PPA. Need 10 more merits for images and I'm there. I added the contrast in order to make it more moody, and the blue toning to make it fit more with the "dark" theme. I decided to overexagerate the verticles with the warp tool, actually that was Wayne's idea, in ps, to also add some drama and threat as Carlos said, the door is actually a door to a tomb in a local cemeatary, the broken glass was in the door so we had this "shawl" with us as a prop and decided an escape from the tomb theme was what I wanted when I composed the shot, originally I started to compose this with her just crawling, thought about the shawl and the broken window and went hmmmmm, why not. So she is escaping through the window in the door of the tomb so to speak which is why the door has some importance. All this may or may not work but the whole process of competing with this image is very educational to me, even if I can't get the score to an 80 or above. There is a panel of 5 judges from various backgrounds, so all input on this is very much appreciated, it gives me all point of views, so once again, appreciate the time and input. I know there will be a judge or two taht may agree with you and this helps m

By MicheleMiller (2008-02-23 16:14:13 ): Really great image...well done. Very dramatic.

By whitewavesPTP (2008-02-23 16:03:26 ): Carl, just as a casual observer (cause you know I'm no pro) I find the new color is very effective. I think you need to work on the title. Maybe something simple like "ESCAPE". Good luck.

By steadyonabix (2008-02-23 10:28:17 ): I do find that odd shaped stone top right a bit of a distraction as it breaks the symmetry, perhaps it would be worth cloning out. Nice idea well executed although I do think the title is a little weak.

By jimdstearns (2008-02-23 09:47:51 ): I emailed you....direct.

By ktapio (2008-02-23 04:12:19 ): I see you what you mean Carlos you do have a point. The lady’s tone is better but the background became too strong with the darkness. And it over whelmed the whole. I am no export at all and especially if the story line is to over whelm the lady victim with a monstrous wall then I agree 100% with you. katia

By karmal (2008-02-23 02:55:52 ): After I post my comment I read Katia's comment and I have to disagree (sorry Katia, it is just my opinion). Because i see this not so much as a fairy tale but as a dark, vampiresque tale, so this toning seems more appropriate. The tilted door seems to me to work well in this case: it gives a more dynamic sense of threat or menace to the viewer. Carlos

By karmal (2008-02-23 01:23:02 ): Besides the fact that this is a great idea and a great photo, what I can say is that I prefer this one because the toning fits better in the story, I mean it reinforces more effectively the sepulchral mood. Carlos

By ktapio (2008-02-22 21:51:40 ): Carl, the contrast is a little to exaggerated the other one was more dreamy and fairy tail like? But I noticed that the picture is tilted to the back you could fix it easily with the distort tool, unless it is meant to be tilted.. wish you good luck.katia

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